"I dont see how asking children to not use a phone in class is punishment."

Yeah... you see there's what doesn't make sense. You aren't asking them not to use them in class, you're asking them not to TAKE them to class. You are saying that no one should be allowed to carry phones to class because the minority will abuse the privilege.

As you said:

"No, just keep their cell phones out of the classroom. Thats all."

I'm not inflexible to any opinion that offers a rational alternative. You admit that phones are a useful tool for kids. You chided cind for suggesting otherwise. Then you say that possession of that tool should be restricted in school because a few people might abuse it.

You can't see how that mirrors other issues and sets up kids for a life of blaming the object and not the person who abuses it? You don't really offer how to fix the situation, you, like gun control people, prohibitionists, etc., believe that shoving the genie back into the bottle is the answer.

The problem isn't the genie.

So long as they are turned off, there should be no problem with a kid having a phone in school.

I second this.

If a kid is spending time texting or getting calls in class, maybe the teacher could take the phone away for the duration of the class and return it at the bell.

I'm not inflexible to any opinion that offers a rational alternative. You admit that phones are a useful tool for kids.

NO! I admit that phones are useful tools for kids outside of the classroom.

Then you say that possession of that tool should be restricted in school because a few people might abuse it.

NO, I say they should not be in the classroom. Simply leave them in the lockers Backer, not because any minority MAY abuse them, but simply because some do in fact abuse them leading to a disruption of the majority.

You can't see how that mirrors other issues and sets up kids for a life of blaming the object and not the person who abuses it? You don't really offer how to fix the situation, you, like gun control people, prohibitionists, etc., believe that shoving the genie back into the bottle is the answer.

This is plain rediculous....just as mothers milk leads to heroine.

I had my locker broken into once every few weeks in school, and the school takes no responsibility for items lost when that happens. I don't think that's a reasonable request.

"This is plain rediculous....just as mothers milk leads to heroine."

If you don't think institutionalizing young people has an effect on them, go hang out on myspace or watch MTV for a few hours. Kids are taught that rules will make them safe and keep them "good" until they are 17 or 18. Then they are turned loose into a world that doesn't make sure they don't have their phone in their pocket when they go to work, and they haven't learned any self control to deal with reality.

It's the phone's fault. Or the bartender's, or the gun's.

i managed to slug thru about 1/2 the responses here and from what i did see, it seems that ,,,

a) the discussion has gotten off point, from the subject of cells in the classroom to the subject of overall discipline. i'm gonna stay out of that hornet's nest for now at least...

on the subject of cells in school...the real problem isn't kids talking or messaging innocently about the usual things kids are concerned with, it's about cheating with cell phones.

kids can use cell phones in all kinds of ways to cheat. they probably won't have a conversation about it in the class. they can store answers in their phone, they can have answers texted in, and they can go on the net to find answers with some phones almost as easily as with a full computer.

and no, they should not be allowed in any classroom. if a student "needs" the phone (which we will avoid that debate and accept the need for our purposes here) for after school or whatever, then schools should make an arrangement to secure the phone before classes begin. the student can pick up the phone when classes end. the penalty for possessing the phone in the class is confiscation. if a test is taking place, the student fails the test as the phone gives a reasonable suspicion of cheating. the phone is then mailed home with a note to the parent (the package addressed to the parent) explaining that it is not allowed to have the phone in the class and the phone can be secured before class if it is necessary to have after school. the note would also explain that if the student is caught again, the penalty will be worse, and the possibility of permanent confiscation does exist. also included will be a bill for the postage needed to send the phone home. that bill must be paid in order for the student to move on to the next year, just like other expenses that are used this way by schools.

the "managing" of the phones could be handled by students themselves, perhaps appointed by student council or the administration or a combination of the 2, who could check in the phones and secure them in the office or a suitable place and return them after school. this way, no additional spending need be done by the school to enforce the policy.

i believe this policy would end this nonsense of having phones in class once and for all. no one's "civil liberties" are being infringed upon. the rules are clear (perhaps a signed statement at the beginning of the year signed by the parent and student would make it crystal to all parties involved)and no major expense is being levied on the school.

comments?

btw...students now do not even have to turn their phones on silent...there are ringtones they can get that adults can't hear...if ya don't know about it, here's a link...WWW Link

just think what that does to student's collective minds when they see other students blatantly "fooling" the teacher and other adults right under their nose?

collect the phones in the morning, etc,etc, etc,,,i won't go into my plan again, if ya'll are curious, read the post above this one...take care:)

If you don't think institutionalizing young people has an effect on them,

Uhh, isnt school itself an institution? I like to think this institution has great effect on children.

Kids are taught that rules will make them safe and keep them "good" until they are 17 or 18. Then they are turned loose into a world that doesn't make sure they don't have their phone in their pocket when they go to work, and they haven't learned any self control to deal with reality.

Kids are taught rules during those years of developement. When they are adults, they enter the world as such. I dont see that many adults, on the whole, spend very much time in the classroom, and when they do, its by their own choice. Children are forced into learning institutions, and thus have no choice in the matter.

I started to see the beginnings of this problem while I was in high school.  Unruly kids could not be removed from classes, could not be disciplined within the (reasonable) limits of the school system.  If any action was taken against a child for inappropriate behavior (ranging from talking in class to threatening a teacher with a blunt object), very often a parent would come barreling in the next day and scream at the administration and teacher because their little angel would NEVER do anything bad unless provoked by some other student or the teacher themselves.

Students would refuse to leave classes when sent to the office.  No one could force them to move either as they'd claim assault if anyone even tried to touch them.  The resolute ones would at this point become even more of a distraction. 

Students would refuse to hand over distracting items such as cell phones, palm pilots (though these were very rare and pretty new when I was still in HS) or other electronics.  Any attempt to confiscate them would result in claims of theft (and again assault if any physical contact occured).

I also knew many students who would regularly skip classes, and whose parents would again swoop in when they failed an exam or entire subject, claiming that their little angel DESERVED a better grade, no matter that they never attended class... it was the teacher's fault for not teaching the subject properly.

The problem ultimately is that teachers and administrators no longer have any power to enforce rules in the school system.  Many students behave just fine, many parents are perfectly reasonable, but with the tendency to sue and press charges over stupid things in recent years, schools have to be ultra-cautious and can't enforce rules on anyone.  Cell phones are the latest distraction/cheating device that schools are finding themselves powerless to combat. 

Most kids will use cell phones responsibly.  Most will not be a distraction or use them to cheat.  But there will always be those who do.  And ultimately, do kids NEED to have a cell phone on their person while they sit in 5th period English?  How on Earth did parents and kids manage before cell phones?  Me, I used the pay phone and setup pick-up times and after-school schedules with my parents ahead of time.  I was always in contact with my folks wherever I went after school using either pay phones or phones at friends houses.  So did kids for several generations prior to mine. 

Unless power is given back to the teachers to enforce rules properly, things like cell phones have to be blocked at the door to the school (either out-right ban, or require a check-in, with harsh consequences to those who violate the ban).

I remember the same discussion when I was in high school... about Walkmans.  Some of us couldn't understand why we shouldn't be able to listen to them during class time, but when the teacher wasn't talking.  Of course, we were wrong, teachers shouldn't have to spend class time trying to get our heads out of our music before they can start lectures or other class activities.   The simple fact was, we had no business listening to our music during classtime.

Apparently we have to reinvent the wheel every time new technology engulfs our culture.  There is no reason for class time to be wasted on reacting to cell phones going off.  If someone needs to get a hold of a student or teacher, they can do it the old fashioned way... call the office and let the office staff contact whoever is needed.  That weeds out the real need from the frivolous calls.

The bottom line is disruption.  A cell phone, turned off, in a pocket, bookbag or purse disrupts no one.  So it should be a "with priviledges comes responsibilities" thing.  No one will ask for your cell phone, but if it rings during class, you just lost it.  

But it really is up to the teacher, administration and school board to decide what the rule should be.

Zoomba December 30, 2006 13:10:50

Well said Zoomba - the truth is out. What you wrote is so very true.

Teachers need to be given back the power to enforce.

The bottom line is disruption. A cell phone, turned off, in a pocket, bookbag or purse disrupts no one. So it should be a "with priviledges comes responsibilities" thing. No one will ask for your cell phone, but if it rings during class, you just lost it.

This is fair enough.

for how long would you suggest they lost it?


As a matter of interest Para:
If an instance as Zoomba suggested arises anbd the child refuses to hand the phone over to the teacher, then what, what would you suggest?

~~As a matter of interest Para:
If an instance as Zoomba suggested arises anbd the child refuses to hand the phone over to the teacher, then what, what would you suggest? ~~

The principal or asst. principal would be called in this case, and if there was still refusal, then the parent should be IMMEDIATELY notified and made to come down to the school to deal with this matter. To have someone such as a principal or school security try to physically take away the phone from a defiant student would only be asking for trouble (harassment charges, lawsuits, like someone else on here said).

InBloom

If the parents were not available to come to the school then what?

Sorry I am not being difficult I am really curious.

Unless power is given back to the teachers to enforce rules properly, things like cell phones have to be blocked at the door to the school (either out-right ban, or require a check-in, with harsh consequences to those who violate the ban).

This is my vote as well Zoomba. Excellent reply!