The babble of a middle-aged lunatic.
Published on December 13, 2006 By Xythe In Current Events
It was not to long ago, JoeUser bloggers went at the "circumcision" arena. An article posted by KFC making a funny turned into quite the discussion. KFCs article was followed up by a couple of strong articles authored by LittleWhip: Does God Want You to Mutilate Your Baby? and Circumcision Part2.

In these 3 articles, discussion ranged from health and hygiene, to sexual pleasure, to disfigurement, and just about any facet of conversation one could imagine with respect to cutting foreskins off our penises. Almost any facet.

It turns out that the US government announced Wednesday, after
the National Institutes of Health closed down 2 studies in Africa as test sites that circumsizing men may cut their risk of contracting AIDs via heterosexual sexual contact.

The connection between circumcised males and its relation to AIDs was first mentioned in the 1980's, where the first clinical trial of  
3,000 men in South Africa, found last year that circumcision cut the HIV risk by 60 percent.

Male circumcision can lower both an individual's risk of infection, and hopefully the rate of HIV spread through the community," said AIDS expert Dr. Anthony Fauci, director of the NIH's National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

"It's not a magic bullet, but a potentially important intervention," agreed Dr. Kevin De Cock of the World Health Organization.

Here is an unadulterated segment of the original article written by LAURAN NEERGAARD, an AP Medical Writer:

"Why would male circumcision play a role? Cells in the foreskin of the penis are particularly susceptible to the HIV virus, Fauci explained. Also, the foreskin is more fragile than the tougher skin surrounding it, providing a surface that the virus could penetrate more easily.

Researchers enrolled 2,784 HIV-negative men in Kisumu, Kenya, and 4,996 HIV-negative men in Rakai, Uganda, into the studies. Some were circumcised; others were just monitored.

Over two years, 22 of the circumcised Kenyans became infected with HIV compared with 47 uncircumcised men, a 53 percent reduction. In Uganda, 22 circumcised men became infected vs. 43 of the uncircumcised, a 48 percent reduction.

The researchers are offering all of the studies' uncircumcised men the chance to undergo the procedure, and 80 percent of the uncircumcised Ugandans already have agreed, said lead researcher Ronald Gray of Johns Hopkins University.

Side effects were rare, including some mostly mild infections that were easily treated. The rate of side effects was comparable to those seen in circumcised U.S. infants, said Robert Bailey of the University of Illinois at Chicago, who led the Kenyan trial.

................................................................................................................................................................................................

It seems as circumcision may have a worldwide value, aside from traditional rants and raves, based on the fact that it may prevent one of the worlds biggest monsters and killers; AIDs.

The original story can be read in whole by clicking the link below.


Comments (Page 3)
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on Dec 16, 2006
"Personally, Id like to see them all exterminated. To bad Im an actual human being. Because honestly, I do not care about these people at all. I look at them as being a public threat. Get rid of those 40 million, and the spead of HIV would seriously be reduced then..huh? Then the world can stop wasting its money on stupid studies such as this one that are nothing but "myths"."


You're a sick human being, and I've wasted my time talking to you. You admitted that it was common knowledge above that HIV is a disease perpetuated among the many by the few. Still, you advocate the extermination of all of them, knowing that many/most never did anything wrong or irresponsible.

I suggest you don't strain yourself with such current events issues and go back to trolling for pictures of pop stars with no undies. Fewer hard conclusions to come to.
on Dec 16, 2006
wow Baker, that's your latest word? Sick? Everyone is sick that disagrees with you? Is that the name of the game? Because that's the one I'm seeing you play lately.

There are estimated to be 40 million people worldwide with HIV, many of which know what they have and continue to spread the disease.


Personally, Id like to see them all exterminated.


While I don't agree with Xythe's statement I would say by reading what he said that he is responding to the ones that are SPREADING THE DISEASE.

But then YOU change your course and say this:

Still, you advocate the extermination of all of them, knowing that many/most never did anything wrong or irresponsible.


So which is it? Is it MANY know and spread the disease? Or is it MANY/MOST never did anything wrong? You are talking out of both sides of your mouth.



on Dec 16, 2006
"While I don't agree with Xythe's statement I would say by reading what he said that he is responding to the ones that are SPREADING THE DISEASE.

But then YOU change your course and say this: "


You're still a liar, KFC. Xythe said:

" Get rid of those 40 million, and the spead of HIV would seriously be reduced then..huh?"


He didn't say just the ones spreading it. You're a hypocrite if you push the ten commandments and then selectively decide what the truth is based upon your quasi-Christian vendetta against people who point out what you are. You are just flaming me because I chimed in on your Santa is Satan stupidity.

In that 40 million there ARE "many" that spread the disease carelessly or knowingly. That doesn't mean that the vast majority do. Not even a slight majority. If a hundred thousand do it I would characterize that as "many".

Go back to vilifying Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. It suits you better. I'm glad, though, that you are willing to out yourself by defending someone who promotes the extermination of the suffering.

Matthew 25:

[41] Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
[42] For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
[43] I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
[44] Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
[45] Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
[46] And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
on Dec 16, 2006
I'm not flaming you. You are the angry man. Not me. You seem to see red quite easily these days Baker. Maybe you need to go back to church.

I am only saying that when I read Xythe's comment that's what I came away with. You on the other hand are way to quick to jump on another. You say I am flaming you? Yet you just called me a liar and a hypocrite. *boggle*

I'm glad, though, that you are willing to out yourself by defending someone who promotes the extermination of the suffering.


Did I not say this:

While I don't agree with Xythe's statement


I do believe if people are willingly infecting another with HIV that they should be held accountable like any other crime.


on Dec 16, 2006
No, KFC, again you offer the selective truth. He said:

"Get rid of those 40 million, and the spead of HIV would seriously be reduced then..huh?"


He didn't say just the ones that spread it, so I doubt you thought that's what he said. I personally believe you agree with EXACTLY what he said, you're just too big of a hypocrite to admit it in public.
on Dec 16, 2006
Whatever Baker. Believe what you want.
on Dec 17, 2006
Baker, do you have AIDS?
on Dec 17, 2006
It is also said to reduce some cancers for males by the circumcision since the uncircumsized male has the folds that breed bacteria and fungi. In the final analysis, it is not harmful (unless done by a drunk Rabbi), and potentially helpful.

I really don't know how you can come to this conclusion Doc. The foreskin is a mucous membrane. It has a purpose to protect the glans. Its removal can have deleterious effects. The glans is not supposed to be dried out and exposed to air at all times.

It doesn't take a drunken Rabbi to butcher a penis. Just watch a little porn and it doesn't take much to realize that that there are a lot of botched jobs out there.

I'd say that the likelihood of being "helped" by being circumcised is infinitesimal.
on Dec 17, 2006
I'm with Baker and LW here on this. These types of brain dead "conclusions" always bother me - like the one where silver is the safest colour of car - puhleese!

Knowledge is power, and the key to helping the poor deal with HIV is through education, not cockamamie (pun intended) schemes. Yes, research is necessary. But not this kind of pseudo-scientific "correlation equals causation" research.

Think about it for a minute; unbridled sex in unhealthy conditions is the perfect way to increase the transmission of HIV. Dollars to donuts that this study group included many men with factors that the study did not consider, including number of partners, other STDs, cuts and wounds to the foreskin, and local rituals/customs.

From the link, "This analysis shows that male circumcision could avert nearly six million new infections and save three million lives in sub-Saharan Africa over the next twenty years". How many new infections could be prevented simply through education or condom use?

Grasp the low-hanging fruit first for God's sake. Don't go for the top of the tree.

I see no value in pursuing this line of reasoning at all, as it will definitely end up with a net increase in the number of HIV infections. This is exactly what we don't need!
on Dec 18, 2006
I see no value in pursuing this line of reasoning at all, as it will definitely end up with a net increase in the number of HIV infections.


Show me a study that supports this claim, or some data that even supports it. Please be sure to relate it to medical research the actually does or may physically prevent HIV. Words are stronger than action? Never has, never will.
on Dec 18, 2006
You think ideas that embolden people to have unprotected sex won't increase infection? You don't need a study for that, you just need common sense.
on Dec 18, 2006
You think ideas that embolden people to have unprotected sex won't increase infection?


You think that studies that show that medicine cant lowerer the risk of HIV infections?

You don't need a study for that, you just need common sense.


Common sence told people the world was flat at one point. Thats why we do studies, and continue to study rather than just think about things.
on Dec 19, 2006
"You think that studies that show that medicine cant lowerer the risk of HIV infections?"


I don't even know what that sentence is asking.

"Common sence told people the world was flat at one point. Thats why we do studies, and continue to study rather than just think about things."


Every HIV website you go to has a FAQ that addresses misconceptions. One of those is based upon the truth; it is much, much more difficult for a man to get HIV from a woman during vaginal intercourse than homosexuals during anal intercourse. Yet we have to spend a lot of time reinforcing the idea that heterosexuals have to practice safe sex. Why should they bother, since you believe that if a fact is the truth it doesn't lead to more infection?

Well, if the truth of lower infection during heterosexual sex merits special warnings on websites, then I would imagine the "truth" of circumcision will also merit special warnings. Every time they release things that embolden people, they have to combat it later. Bank on the fact that there will be people who use this as an excuse not to use condoms, and people will be infected.

Like I said, you can sit here and play Mr. Science, but there's not much you could educate me regarding this. You damn well can't sit there and liken my knowledge of the subject to someone who believed the world was flat.
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